Liz Rose and the signs of mutual attraction
Liz Rose talks about how to know when attraction is mutual, and her framing is that mutual attraction is not a single grand gesture. It is an observable, involuntary biological pattern of behavioral synchrony, rhythmic eye contact, and mutual initiation. I mean, that sounds nice. I could go for all of that. But the distinction between initiation and response is incredibly strong, because that is exactly what I have been getting at. A woman who starts making some serious eye contact with me, someone I can see on a dance floor whose behavior is syncing up with mine, who is giving open body language, who is dancing and looking at me, and when I experience that kind of connection I am reciprocating it, because it is a two-way thing. It is the most useful framework, as challenging as it is, because sometimes people are just polite social creatures too. When someone is genuinely attracted, it is challenging to figure out whether this person is just being polite and nice, especially if you meet them at work.
I think this is worth watching if you are an anxiously attached dater. Even the technical language breaking all of this down is just wild. People constantly overanalyze text messages, and that is me, along with single interactions, but I am letting go of overanalyzing text messages. To me, the purpose of the phone is to meet up in person, especially in early dating. The purpose of the phone is to meet up in person. I will agree with Coach Corey Wayne on that. The purpose of the phone is to meet up in person. Now, if we have met up in person and we have some chemistry, then I may talk to you on the phone or do more, but I do not want to build a relationship on the phone.
This video relies a lot on neurotypical body language markers, and this can be missed by neurodivergent individuals. Some people say I may be a little on the spectrum. I have never been tested and never plan on getting tested, because I do not believe that is me, and it does not resonate with me. I am a person who does not naturally mirror posture, and I feel like eye contact takes a little work for me. I often either do nothing or go way over the top, so I really resonate with this discussion. It made me ask, are we addicted to anxiety and calling it butterflies? A lot of what people associate with the romantic spark is really more anxious and frenetic energy. But then you combine that with the fact that when you get with somebody really exciting, you might feel exactly that. And I imagine we are going to keep spending less time on each creator as the advice starts to go down. The top 20 here are offering pretty solid advice that has been very helpful.
Kira Lotan on niceness as a manipulative transaction
Now, one creator's video that really surprised me is Kira Lotan. When I first saw her videos, I thought there was no way there was anything helpful in there. On the surface, the titles just looked like a ranting vlog. But I was really surprised when I dug deeper. Her videos are some of the top dating videos right now, so I figured I would look closer. Her idea is that women do not lose attraction because a man is nice. They lose attraction because his niceness is a manipulative transaction that lacks boundaries and abandons his own identity just to please her. Good Lord, could I identify this in my relationship with my ex.
She was so attracted to me when I had a very firm identity and when I was not manipulatively nice. I was an asshole when you pissed me off, and I would not use niceness as a manipulative transaction in the first years together. And I did lack boundaries, especially toward the end of the relationship. She could talk to me any kind of way and do almost anything, and I would just take it, and then I would try to be nice, and it went nowhere. I can see how she lost attraction. I kept trying to diffuse things, make things easier, and walk on eggshells to make a better environment for the kids. By trying to be nice, my niceness was also a manipulative transaction where I was expecting something, abandoning my identity, trying to just please her.
There is a big distinction between being nice and being kind, between being respectful and truthful and actually being able to say no. It is funny to think about how much I hate being told what to do, and then to look back at how people used to make fun of me because I was such a yes man in my relationship. You want to be good people without being a doormat. I have been finding that I get friend zoned a decent amount of the time too. I know how to be a jerk, and I would say I was definitely a jerk when I met my ex. She has a lot of videos if you enjoy watching this. That said, when nice guys think they are manipulating other people by being agreeable, sometimes people who are generally anxious or trauma conditioned please others out of a fear of abandonment. I was definitely afraid of being abandoned by my ex, so I was just trying to please her and make her happy however I could, but I ended up being resentful and worse overall for doing that. So is being nice actually a manipulative transaction? I think that if you are being nice in an area where you would honestly not be nice, then that is manipulative.
Ishmael Gomez III on the feeling she controls
Ishmael Gomez III, respect for being another third like I am. His point is that men pick their dream woman based on a feeling she controls. His thesis is that men do not choose long-term partners based on a logical checklist. Instead, they commit based on the emotional feeling of ease, alignment, and social validation a woman creates in their nervous system. That is interesting to me, because I think the direct opposite. But maybe I just have not felt ease and alignment and social validation with a woman. I have been saying no to women because of my logical checklist. He advises that women should objectively assess a man's character before committing to him, and yes, absolutely. It seems there are a lot of women who are not doing that, who are just getting sucked into feelings of lust and romance. Did you take 10 seconds to think about this guy's character? Meanwhile I have this character that I think is great to offer, and it is like, well, if there is not this insane lust and spark and attractiveness, it is just not interesting. But all I need is one queen who is very interested in this, and that will happen.
This is worth watching, because unfortunately it sounds like people like me actually fit into it pretty well. His claim that women who are barely trying to get chosen over those putting in effort might be misinterpreted as an instruction to be passive or aloof. I believe, especially in the culture these days, that it is important as a woman to proactively make sure you are signaling and making contact with men, because the kind of man you might really like to date might not be the kind of guy who is going to be trying to be a pickup artist, going over and starting all this attraction with you. He might be waiting for you to give him a sign. So why does perfect on paper often fall so flat? I have been out with a number of women who seemed compatible on paper, and yeah, it fell flat. Attraction is shifting from resumes to nervous system alignment.
Love Advice TV on what "I need space" means
Love Advice TV covers "I need space" and what it actually means. This has always been an annoying one to me when a partner asks for space, and I have struggled to maintain a balance, because maybe, according to some of this, I have some avoidant tendencies. When a partner asks for space, my reaction is, bye, I guess I am never seeing you again. And I have gone the other way, where I can emotionally overwhelm people as well.
The healthiest response is amazing to consider. I went out on one date with a single mom who seemed very interested in me. She messaged me first after six months of not seeing me in person. I had deleted her phone number. She messaged me, immediately asked me out on a date, and we went out. I was emotionally eager, and that is exactly why I hate this culture, because I expressed genuine interest in her and she was just completely turned off, canceled, and ghosted. Now I tell myself she needs space, so I am never texting her again. That is done. She would have to reach out to me. I would never make any kind of outreach to her again after she did not respond to my last two or three messages. It is over. The nervous system is reset by now.
I have a bit of a hard time with this, because sometimes I do need my nervous system to reset for a day. But after a day, I just figure this is over, isn't it? Sometimes the one woman I went out with needed a couple of weeks for her nervous system to reset, and yes, unfortunately, this is very accurate to what I have needed. Although I am not big on getting your ex back. I really think people are hung up on their exes way too often, and I know how hypocritical that could sound given what I have said. That said, there is a time and place for space. God, this is hard. When you can lean into the complexity and the depth of dating, you are going to see that you do not want to just watch one person who tells you it is this one way. You want to get into the depths and get comfortable with the fact that there is so much I do not know. From there, you can learn.
Dating advice for men who love women: what she says versus what she wants
Number 44, dating advice for men who love women, gets into female psychology and women's preferences, what they say versus what they want. I have actually gotten pretty into this lately, because I have observed that sometimes women will say what they want, and then do the opposite. I had a discussion with the same woman I mentioned earlier, the one I talked to for hours. She said she wanted a stable, smooth relationship. But when you looked at what she had literally just chosen, she chose a volatile relationship that left her. She chose not to express much interest in me and shut me down. Then she chose a man she had a volatile relationship with, one who leaves her on the couch crying and grieving and sobbing to her friends. She says she wants something stable, but her choices indicate she wants something volatile and unhealthy.
To me, the advice is to look at a woman's true character to see where her actions line up. My actions show that I had a stable relationship for most of 15 years, so I do want a stable relationship, and I am not willing to accept some volatile, crazy stuff. I am not down for that. I want a stable, healthy, happy home. Unfortunately, men who end up in the friend zone tend to overinvest early in a woman based on her words. Yep.
If any of this resonates with you and you want to go deeper on it with me, I would love to have you in my community, the Jerry Banfield Family, over on Skool. You can also book a call or a Zoom with me if you want to talk one on one, message me directly, talk to my AI, read my books, or come to an event. Working through all of this in the open is exactly what I do there.
Why I don't act "pre-selected"
The concept of acting pre-selected is one I don't like, because I'm only interested in finding one queen to make a beautiful life with. That said, I do have several women I'm interested in, and maybe something will work out with one of them at some point. I know they're attracted to me, I know we have chemistry, but at the same time I let them lead with their desire. If they message me and want to see me, or they ask how I'm doing and I actually have a mutual desire to continue with them, then I'll go forward from there.
I absolutely believe you should watch what people do instead of what they say. If anything, I've gotten pretty confrontational about it, because by default people are often saying what they think you want to hear, what they wish were true instead of what's actually true. So I love to hear people talk about their exes, because to me that's a much better sign of what's true than whatever you claim you want.
This whole project has been quite an experiment. I studied all these creators one by one, and I'm genuinely curious how many people will watch the entire thing through, and how many will come find me at my Skool community recognizing the effort, the depth of knowledge, the empathy, the compassion, and the desire to help behind it. If that's you, I'd love for you to join the Jerry Banfield Family there.
Creator 46 and the "approach 20,000 women" claim
This next creator, at number 46, is around the idea that approaching women should be viewed as a journey. Now, this is a big claim, saying you approached 20,000 women. That's a huge claim, and it's questionable, because even at a minimum of one minute per woman, that's 20,000 minutes. Push it up and you're talking something like a thousand hours of putting in one approach every minute. Maybe that's accurate. Maybe it's a clickbait title. But the core thesis is that approaching women should be viewed as a journey of self-development and radical honesty, and I do agree with that.
The more women I've talked to, the more I'm learning about myself. I went to a dance class and social last night and I just said what was on my mind, what felt authentic, instead of trying to think of the perfect thing. I noticed some of the women didn't seem to really like the authentic me, but that's fine, because I'm not trying to get everyone to like me. My intention is to show up honestly and see who really appreciates my radical honesty. If you use fake personas to make social connections, you will feel isolated. Absolutely true. And if you're burnt out on the traditional manipulative pickup-artist devices, this could be a good approach.
Where I part ways is on the practicality. The idea of approaching 20,000 women is pretty inaccessible and unrealistic for most of us. I don't even enjoy approaching a woman who isn't giving me a clear signal she wants to be approached. I don't want to grab some woman who's on her phone and try to snap her out of her trance, because the general reaction is going to be "fuck you" — hey, that was rude, you violated my boundaries, I wasn't interested in talking to you. That kind of energy is so toxic to me that I just don't want to be around it. So dropping the persona is definitely the way to go, and radical honesty and face-to-face connection are definitely the way to go. But you want to let that happen in as natural of an environment as possible.
Christine Loveridge — stop texting, do this instead
Christine Loveridge's message is stop texting, stop calling, or do this instead, and it's very relevant to my current situation. When one of the people you're dating pulls away or loses interest, your only effective move is to cease contact and redirect your attention elsewhere. Yep. Recognize you can't talk or logic someone back into being attracted to you. I've tried, and it's just frustrating, a continuous waste of time and emotional leakage. I've definitely been the over-texter, the over-explainer, the one who smothers a partner when he feels them pulling away.
Now, it's a little dramatic to say "I'm never going to speak to you again." Some of these women who've pulled away — if they came back, I'd be very open and interested. But the gift of absence is a healthy foundation. If I text you, you cancel the date, I follow up, and you don't respond, then it's over unless you come back. That's my opinion. Some might say that's too cold, but that's where I land.
Choose women who choose you
The next idea is choose women who choose you, and I resonate a lot with the pushback on it. The popular advice to "choose women who choose you" is fundamentally flawed for the average man who wants a highly attractive woman. But here's the thing: I don't need a highly attractive woman. I'm happy to take a woman with average looks as long as she's on the slim or lean end of the build, and who is really very interested in me. I love that.
In the past, I selected my ex primarily on beauty. She's highly attractive — my dad said, "boy, that girl could be a model." She was gorgeous, and she was in law school, so I selected on all that and didn't worry too much about the rest of the personality. Now I'd be happy with a woman who's average on looks and genuinely into me.
I agree you must actively pursue and leverage familiarity to bypass snap, looks-based judgment. This is where community comes into play, which I've emphasized many times. It's why most nights when I don't have my kids I'm out, and I'm trying to get my kids out to more community things too. Every one of these dating coaches who's telling you how much looks matter is literally blind to leveraging familiarity, at least in heteronormative dating, where women over time tend to care hardly at all about how a guy looks once they get to know him well enough.
Here's my proof. As I wrote about in my Officer Banfield book, there was a dispatcher back in 2009 — as beautiful as I could possibly imagine a woman being — that I worked with when I was a police officer. She fell madly in love with me. We had sex, we had a little relationship. It turned into a lot of drama, but I never would have gotten a woman like that on a dating app, because there she'd have been looking for all the Chads. Because I got to know her over six months, because she was a dispatcher and I was a police officer, I had that little bit of status, she got to see my personality, and I was attractive enough. She would not have matched with me on a dating app. I got with her by leveraging familiarity.
So if you take anything from this, make sure you leverage familiarity — it's super important. That's why I've restructured my life to be in communities where I'm naturally around women who have alignment with me and my lifestyle, who want kids, who are healthy. I'm good-looking enough — I don't believe in number ratings because they're subjective, but I'd like to think I'm at least average or better. Combine that with familiarity and anything's possible with any woman. I love this advice because it's super realistic and actionable, grounded in real relationship sociology.
It's more based on attraction and tactics, so it can get you in the door and bypass the algorithms of modern dating. The dating market isn't a binary choice between beauty and treatment, and yes, it is a bit objective and shallow. But can average men really date out of their league by getting off dating apps? Absolutely, one hundred percent, I'm certain of it. Anybody telling you different doesn't know a thing about dating in the bigger picture. They may be dating in a very narrow hallway, in a very specific context on dating apps, but they are not dating outside of that. I've been there, I've done that, I've seen it, I have personal experience with it, and I've seen others do the same.
Haley Quinn — the five excuses, and where I disagree
Haley Quinn's angle is the five excuses men use to avoid talking to women, and this one often runs directly opposite to how I see it. Her point is that men struggle to meet women in real life not because they lack conversational skills, but because they self-reject and invent excuses to avoid initiating. I get that. At the same time, I don't want to keep initiating conversations with women who are so cold and so passive that they're not sending any signals. If you're not making eye contact, if you're not smiling, you're signaling to me that you don't want me to talk to you. That's exactly what you're signaling. There has to be something mutual.
The advice to slow down your approach so the person has time to disengage from their phone — that's crazy to me. Interrupting a woman who's on her phone, clearly checked out... look, I'm a guy who walks around in public. If you're on your phone with your earbuds in, to me that's saying I'm not interested at all in human connection right now. So I go walk around without headphones, and I engage. I talk to everybody — I say hi to men, women, old, young, all kinds of people. And almost never does anybody seem interested in having a conversation with me, no matter the demographic.
I did have one conversation with a woman walking her dog one day who actually seemed interested in talking. But the poor woman was all screwed up over her last relationship and not dating. From my view, I wonder if she regrets walking away from an easy opportunity like that.
So her advice to slow down the approach — no. If you're a woman, you should not be so passive, head down, on your phone, totally disengaged from reality, and then expect me to come up and interrupt you, only to deal with the wrath of women who say "what the fuck, you violated my boundaries, I'm triggered." Stop. I will approach you if you signal that you're interested. Women often communicate subtly, and I get that. But it is creepy and intrusive to approach a woman in an everyday real-world situation where she's not paying any attention at all.
Haley Quinn and the "just approach her" school of thought
Haley Quinn's advice here lands right on the thing I've had enough of. She doesn't seem to be showing any interest, and I'm supposed to push in anyway? That is creepy and intrusive, and I'm tired of getting the creepy and intrusive treatment over and over. I'm not going to keep approaching women who aren't sending any signals. If you're that passive, I'll let some other dude who's willing to be creepy and intrusive have you. I don't want to be in a relationship with a woman who's so passive she won't send a signal.
And how is it even a rejection when somebody is rude, comes up to you, interrupts what you're doing, is obnoxious, and then won't leave, which is certainly how some men approach? How is that a win? You were rude. Don't do that.
I've been the pickup guy. I used to approach women all the time. I'd get fake phone numbers. I'd call girls who had no idea who I was. I already did that. And this is not the environment to do that in today, unless you want to get roasted, unless you want to get labeled creepy, unless you want people talking about what a loser you are. There's a woman I talked to who seemed very interested in me. People recognize me from my videos around town sometimes, and she goes around telling women she knows me from my videos, saying, "Yeah, he tried to hit on me." Like that's what you get. And this woman already knew me because we had a friend in common. She knew me before I knew her. She was signaling me. She sat next to me the second time she met me. And she's going around talking all this, trying to make me sound like some creep, when she was actually the one giving a bunch of signals. That's what happens when somebody is giving signals and you respond.
So you're telling me I should go interrupt a woman at a coffee shop who has her head down and is on her phone, and try to start a conversation? That's insane. That's rude. If I'm on my phone, I assure you, if there were a woman I found attractive and interesting nearby, I'd hope I wouldn't be on my phone, so I'd be in a position for her to approach me. That one really got me.
Jessica O and reading the signals
Jessica O's "seven things women do when they're pretending to like you" is decently practical. But again, watching a bunch of videos like this can be very shallow and not do much for actually building a relationship. You only need so many videos like this. The idea is that when a woman is secretly attracted to you, her subconscious behaviors, like nervous eating, remembering tiny details, and reflexively denying feelings, betray her true interest. It has a nice sound to it. You do obviously want to remain calm and hold your emotional baseline, for sure.
The advice about her denying attraction a little too quickly, though, points at a problem of unclear communication, which is exactly why we need very clear communication. There was one slide I had to pull aside because it wouldn't fit, but the point stands: you do need to respect people's verbal boundaries. The woman I talked to who said she wasn't physically attracted to me, I respected her verbal boundary and canceled the second date. Don't tell me you're not physically attracted to me if you don't want me to decide you're not worth my time.
This is helpful if you struggle to read the lines, but then it gets challenging, because sometimes people, not just women, will say things they don't really mean. They'll say one thing but mean something else. Sometimes people want you to read between the lines. It's hard, because there's social intelligence on one side and ignoring a clear "no" on the other. That's why there's so much complexity here, and it's why it really helps to have a supportive community around your dating, someone you trust that you can message and ask questions, people on a similar wavelength. That's a big part of what I've tried to build with the Jerry Banfield Family, so you're not sorting through all of this alone.
Marnie, Your Personal Wing Girl, and the pullback effect
Number 74, Marnie, Your Personal Wing Girl: how to attract women without doing a single thing. When you're faced with a woman's disinterest or unequal effort, over-pursuing destroys attraction. I've absolutely noticed that. You must implement the pullback effect. But my problem is I've done this too much. If some of you went through my phone, there'd probably be a woman or two you'd think I've done too much pullback effect on.
Here's one. A woman matched me and was really excited to talk. We talked on the phone, I was showing interest, and then she went cold. So I didn't message her for a week. Then one night I said hey, and she came back with "good morning." She was going to go do a couple of things, and there was somewhere I could meet her. I said, "I'm playing tennis, would you like me to stop by and meet you?" She says, "Well, if I wasn't leaving immediately, I'd say yes." Pullback effect. I'm not texting you again. You're done. Your interest is so low that I was literally willing and able to effortlessly just show up and say hi, and it still wasn't enough. No.
I don't know what happened. Maybe she doesn't want kids and I do, so we're out of alignment. Maybe something else. Maybe she met someone. But this is a clear case of there being nothing there, and if there's anything there at this point, she's shown such disinterest that she'd have to be the one to reach out. She didn't respond to my message for a week, then sent that lukewarm, cold response. You do need to recognize the rejection zone, and I was in it. You've got to stop over-texting.
But here's the other side. I've heard so many guys, especially, say they threw out a Hail Mary. I know one guy who met a woman on a dating app in 2021, had her on Instagram, and nothing happened. They were connected on Instagram for years. Then out of the blue he messages her, and now they're having a baby together. So sometimes you might need to wait a lot longer, and there might need to be something special there. Even so, I'm about to delete that woman's number right now.
Some people say the pullback effect risks being misinterpreted as manipulative or game-playing. So is doing nothing the most powerful move when someone pulls away? That's the thing, though: if both people keep acting like that, you're never going to have a relationship. Someone needs to be the one who expresses the desire. And it just seems like today that has to be the woman. I don't know what it is, but a lot of these videos seem to be confirming it. If I express more desire than the woman does, it seems to instantly cool off. Maybe it just hasn't been the right woman yet.
Coach Kyle and cold approach
Coach Kyle: a proven framework to get more dates in 30 days. Just getting dates, without any emphasis on translating dates into relationships or getting dates that actually align, is not good for relationships. This is based on cold approach, and I don't agree with cold approach. It's not the way to find a great relationship, just cold approaching and constantly bothering people. Don't agree with that.
Now, I like to practice and role-play before going infield. That makes sense. I'm perfectly capable of cold approaching, it just doesn't make sense to me as a strategy. And if there's some woman out there who's desperate for me to cold approach her, but she's going to sit there acting like she isn't, that's dishonest. Coach Kyle also has the recommendation to record your cold approaches to review later. That has a certain sense to it, but it could go drastically wrong too. Do not record game tape of your dates. That's crazy.
Mia Adora on over-functioning
Mia Adora says detach and stop being a nice girl and he'll step up, from a former single mom. All right. We're getting to four hours here, let's wrap this up. Women must stop over-functioning and carrying the emotional weight of others. Exactly. Stop trying to do so much, and make space so you're emotionally available when a healthy masculine man comes along. And I will pursue a woman if you signal that you desire my pursuit. Just don't pursue a woman when she doesn't signal she's interested in your pursuit. I agree.
You should absolutely watch a man's consistent actions over his words and excuses. I'm surprised a lot of the time, because apparently I'm different from a lot of men. I hear from women what men are doing, and I'm like, what are men doing out there? Men are lying about being married, lying about their height, lying about their age, promising one thing and not delivering it. I'm here. I'm ready for my queen to step up and say, "Look, I want you, I desire you, please pursue me, text me every morning." I'm happy to text a woman every morning. If she responded positively to that and didn't go cold and ignore me some days or send one-word replies, I'd be happy to pursue. But you've got to let me know.
When dating coaching drifts into pseudo-medicine
Some of this got interesting, but it's still dangerous when you're watching people who start trying to be a doctor and a dating coach and other things all at the same time. Dating coaching drifting into pseudo-medicine can be problematic. I do believe, in my own experience, that the energy you move and your health are very related. So it gets tricky, especially on YouTube, where you have to be really careful making specific claims about specific things. But I personally know that I get massages, I move energy, and my body is remarkably healthy, which is how I've been able to talk for four hours uninterrupted.
Coach Corey Wayne
Coach Corey Wayne. Boy, I was happy to put Coach Corey Wayne at the end of this, let me tell you. I started watching his videos when I was first separated. To be clear, he has some good points in his videos, absolutely. Some of them are good. I agree that when a woman pulls back or goes cold, a man should match that action, because if the woman's desire has gone, there's no point trying to cultivate it, as I've made sure to test. I agree you should stop pursuing when someone's actions show low interest, refuse "maybe" dates, and absolutely avoid doing any crazy stuff like that.
Coach Corey Wayne and the "3% Man" problem
A lot of Corey Wayne's material rubs me the wrong way. So much of it comes down to him going off on his followers and expecting them to read his stuff over and over. I bought his 3% Man book and read the whole thing, and his idea that you should read his book ten times is some of the most bullshit stuff I've heard. There are a lot of other authors out there. You're not the only person who wrote a dating book, all right? I'm genuinely interested to hear other people's opinions too.
Then there's the actual advice. The idea that a woman wanting to slow down the pacing is somehow a problem strikes me as questionable. The idea that you should just try to have fun, hook up, and have sex as the whole point of it — man, no. Doing this kind of research really opened my eyes on that.
Why I dropped him to the bottom 10%
Here's the thing that surprised me most. I was actually subscribed to Coach Corey Wayne's channel before I did this research. After going through more than a hundred dating channels one by one, I came out thinking Corey's in the bottom — like bottom 10% for me. He has some good points here and there, but in my experience it's not a sustainable approach to how you treat the people who follow you or the people you're trying to date.
A better deal than a $1,000 call
Corey charges a fortune to have a call with him. You can talk to me for a fraction of that. If you want to actually work through your situation with a real person instead of being told to reread a book ten times, you can book a call with me, and it's a much better deal than talking to Corey. You can also jump right in and join the Jerry Banfield Family in my Skool community and talk to me there — a far better deal than the thousand-dollar-an-hour route.
That's the whole reason I sat down and studied all of these creators one by one — so you can skip the nonsense and figure out who's actually worth listening to. If you want to keep going through my full breakdown of these dating coaches, take a look at my Dating playlist. I'd love to hear your opinions on Corey and the rest, because this is exactly the kind of thing that's better hashed out in a conversation than shouted at followers.